Ven. Roger Kunsang offering mandala to Lama Zopa Rinpoche during a long life puja, 2018.

As FPMT marks its 50th anniversary, we have been honored to receive so much important history from FPMT’s early students. Today, we are delighted to share a conversation with Venerable Roger Kunsang, Board Member, Interim Executive Director, Senior Advisor of FPMT Inc. This year also marks fifty years since Ven. Roger’s ordination — a milestone that has quietly inspired the monks and nuns of the International Mahayana Institute (IMI) and the wider FPMT family. Ven. Thubten Chokyi sat down with him via Zoom to hear the story behind half a century in robes.

We are especially happy to share this interview today, as July 18 marks both the observance of Chokhor Duchen and FPMT’s celebration of International Sangha Day! International Sangha Day offers an opportunity for monastic and lay communities to come together in recognition of their interdependence, celebrating the ways they mutually rely on one another’s practice of the Dharma.

Lama Zopa Rinpoche with Ven. Roger in the background, 1987. Photo courtesy of LYWA.

Ven. Roger has dedicated his life to Kyabje Lama Zopa Rinpoche and to the FPMT organization. From 1987 until Lama Zopa Rinpoche showed the aspect of passing away, he served as personal attendant, secretary, and assistant, accompanying Rinpoche on the road seven days a week, day and night, for thirty-eight years of continuous service. After Rinpoche’s passing, he joined the search team for Lama Zopa Rinpoche’s reincarnation.

In recognition of his decades of service, Ven. Roger received the “Expression of Appreciation” award from the monastic community of Sera Je Monastery, in recognition of his enduring work as personal secretary to Lama Zopa Rinpoche and his leadership of FPMT in support of the preservation and promotion of the Buddha Dharma.

Over the years he has served in a variety of capacities: As CEO and president of FPMT Inc., as a member of the FPMT Inc. Board of Directors, as founding director of Vajrayana Institute, and as a board member of the Maitreya Project. Ven. Roger has also been a tireless fundraiser for the many projects supporting Lama Zopa Rinpoche’s Vast Vision.

We truly rejoice in Ven. Roger’s lifetime of service to the FPMT organization and his lamas. From his earliest days as a young student drawn to the Dharma, through thirty-eight years of tireless devotion at Lama Zopa Rinpoche’s side, to his continuing leadership as Senior Advisor, Ven. Roger’s fifty years in robes stand as a testament to what one life dedicated to the guru and to the benefit of all sentient beings can accomplish. May his example continue to inspire for generations to come!

We are truly honored to share this interview with Ven. Roger, conducted by Ven. Thubten Chokyi, Director of IMI (International Mahayana Institute). 

Please enjoy this interview on YouTube, or read the lightly edited transcript below:

The Journey to the Dharma

Ven. Thubten Chokyi: Looking back, what was it that initially brought you to the Dharma?

Ven. Roger Kunsang: Well, there’s a long story and a short story to that. Generally, during my teenage years, I felt a deep dissatisfaction with what people conventionally believed brought a happy life. I just didn’t feel that path was working for me at all. That’s the short story.

Ven. Chokyi: We don’t mind the long story!

Ven. Roger: Okay. It started with the realization that the things making other people happy weren’t making me happy. I decided that if something wasn’t going to bring genuine happiness, why do it? So, gradually over time, I stopped doing literally everything that, conventionally, people thought made you happy. Based on my own simple analysis and commitment, I just stopped.

Then the big question became: What actually makes me happy? What is the cause of happiness?

One day, I think I was in the US or Canada, and I came to the conclusion that if I focused on helping other people—and it was really sincere—that was something I couldn’t break down. It felt incredibly significant. I was about 19 or 20 at the time, and I thought, “The work I do should be what brings people happiness.”

I thought about becoming a doctor because of the immediate benefit they bring, especially to children. I started doing volunteer work in a hospital in the US or Canada, but not too long after starting, I realized that while doctors fixed children up physically, it didn’t necessarily make them happy.

Then I thought, Okay, it’s the mind that’s the problem. I decided I’d become a psychologist. I read a few books on psychology, but that settled things very quickly—it seemed like they didn’t really know or weren’t entirely sure about what they were doing at that time. So, that dismissed psychology.

A Blowing Wind and a Poster

IMI Sangha in 1977, Kopan Monastery. Ven. Roger Kunsang, bottom right. Photo courtesy of LYWA.

Ven. Chokyi: How did you make the transition from that realization to actually discovering Buddhism?

Ven. Roger: Around that time, I was living in Canada and decided to become a vegetarian so I wouldn’t contribute to harming animals. I was eating at a vegetarian restaurant in Toronto, located in the basement of a university. It was wintertime.

As I stepped outside, a huge blast of wind ripped everything off a nearby notice board. As I tried to close the door and get away from the wind, a single piece of paper blew up and stuck right to my chest. I pulled it off. It was an advertisement for Swami Satchidananda, who was coming to Canada for the first time to lead yoga classes and teach meditation. Immediately, I thought, Meditation. Control my mind. That seems like the next obvious thing to try.

I spent about six weeks regularly going to his yoga classes. By the end of it, he suggested, “You’re interested in yoga and meditation, why don’t you go to India to my master’s ashram?” His master was a very famous yogi who had passed away, and his main ashram was in Rishikesh.

So, I took the trip. I got to England and hitchhiked my way all the way to India. I went to Rishikesh, but while the ashram was nice, there wasn’t anybody there teaching the mental part of disciplining or controlling the mind. Some of the Indian swamis there told me, “You should go high up into the mountains above Rishikesh. There are many yogis living in caves there who can answer your questions.”

I went up there for a few weeks and finally came across a swami living in a cave named Tatambari Baba. He was sitting in the cave completely naked, with hair so long it reached the ground and trailed along it. He had been in that cave for 23 years with no food and no sleep, living in a state of samadhi. Prior to that, he had been an engineer and an officer in the British Indian Army before renouncing life.

I kept bothering him with questions. Every time I asked something, he would say, “I’ll give you a mantra.” I’d ask more questions, and he’d repeat, “Give you a mantra.” Finally, after a few days, he looked at me and said, “For you, better Buddhism.”

I said, “Okay.” I went back down the mountain to the ashram, and right there on a pole was a poster: two Tibetan lamas teaching a one-month meditation course at Kopan Monastery in Nepal. I headed off to Nepal, and that was my connection. It was the sixth meditation course at Kopan, in April 1974.

The Call to Ordination

Ven. Roger Kunsang at Kopan Monastery, 1976. Photo courtesy of LYWA.

Ven. Chokyi: What was that initial experience at Kopan like, and how did it lead to your ordination?

Lama Zopa Rinpoche teaching at the Sixth Meditation Course, Kopan Monastery, Nepal, 1974. Photo by Ursula Bernis.

Ven. Roger: At that time, I was completely bent on understanding the mind and hadn’t found satisfying answers anywhere else. Then Lama Zopa Rinpoche started teaching, and all the answers started coming. I had absolutely no prior knowledge of Buddhism whatsoever. Rinpoche gave us a full dose of the teachings, mostly focusing on the eight worldly dharmas and the suffering of the lower realms.

Ven. Chokyi: And how did the actual decision to ordain come about?

Ven. Roger: After the one-month course finished, I actually left quite quickly. Even though it was extremely beneficial, my self-cherishing mind just wanted to leave because it was grasping at all sorts of things. I continued my travels and eventually returned to Australia after being away for some years.

While there, I got a call from Nick Ribush, who was in Nepal. He told me that Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche were coming to Australia for the first time. They needed a house outside of Sydney where they could alternate doing retreats—Rinpoche would retreat for two weeks while Lama Yeshe taught, and then they would swap.

My job was to find and rent a house, and then act as the cook and cleaner. Rinpoche did his retreat first. At this point, my entire experience with Buddhism was still just that single one-month course at Kopan.

During those two weeks of cooking and cleaning while Rinpoche was in retreat, a thought kept coming up in my mind out of nowhere: Be a monk. Be a monk. It just kept rising. I still didn’t understand much about the Dharma, and I had absolutely no idea what being a monk actually entailed! But the thought persisted.

At the end of the retreat, I mentioned it to Rinpoche, and he told me to ask Lama Yeshe. When I finally asked Lama Yeshe, he said, “Oh yes, dear, you must become a monk. You can go to Nepal straight away and become ordained.” That is the short story—or maybe the long story!

Ven. Chokyi: It’s wonderful. And as you said, you really had no idea what it meant to be a monk at the time?

Ven. Roger: No idea whatsoever.

Thrown into the Deep End

Ven. Chokyi: Looking back over your journey, what do you wish you had understood earlier on that you learned subsequently?

Ven. Roger: Being with Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche at that time was a bit like being thrown into the deep end. There wasn’t a lot of questioning on my part about being a monk, even though I didn’t know the vows or anything.

I was only there a short time before Lama Yeshe offered me rabjung (renunciate) ordination. Shortly after, Rinpoche told me I should go to Dharamshala to receive getsul (novice) ordination. His Holiness the Dalai Lama wasn’t giving vows at that particular time, so I took them from Trijang Rinpoche, with Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche present.

Group ordination at Tushita Meditation Centre with Trijang Rinpoche, Lama Zopa Rinpoche, and Lama Yeshe. Ven. Roger Kunsang, top right. Photo courtesy of LYWA.

Just after I took the getsul vows, I was talking to Rinpoche and he said, “Oh, in three days’ time, Ling Rinpoche is giving gelong (full) ordination. You should do that.” I still didn’t really know what I was doing, but in a very short time, I ended up with full gelong ordination. There wasn’t much preparation or prior experience.

Looking back, I can’t say it was the wrong way around because I was following the advice of my teachers, but to truly adapt to the lifestyle and the vows, familiarity with the lamrim is critical. It can’t just be an intellectual understanding; you actually have to meditate on it and put it into practice.

The more you can do that, the safer you are. When you get ordained, the main enemy you face in keeping your vows is attachment. That was certainly my main enemy. It can come at times very, very strongly. The only way to deal with it is by having actual experience with the lamrim to rely on.

The Reality and Challenges of Ordination

Ven. Chokyi: What would you say have been some of the most significant benefits of living in ordination?

Ven. Roger: From my point of view, I don’t know where my life would have ended up without ordination. It was already a bit crazy. Maybe I would have connected with the Dharma and not become a monk, so I can’t say for sure, but without the vows to help deal with attachment, life can easily become a disaster. It’s as simple as that. You might think you’re having a good time from time to time, but basically, it’s a disaster, and before you know it, life is over, you’re dead, and it has been a waste.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama with Lama Zopa Rinopche and Ven. Roger Kunsang, Livorno, Italy, June 16, 2014. Photo by Matteo Passigato.

Ven. Chokyi: What challenges should Westerners be aware of before considering ordination, or even as they progress through it?

Ven. Roger: Attachment is the big thing. Because it’s difficult to rely solely on karma, I would say it is vital to choose your teacher carefully. If you can, find a teacher who gives experiential teachings—like the teachings His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Lama Yeshe, and Lama Zopa Rinpoche give. Those teachings come from their actual experience of practicing the path, so they touch you much more deeply than someone just teaching intellectually.

On the basis of finding the right teacher, you also have to choose the right environment. If you just hang out in normal, worldly situations, it becomes too difficult for most of us. You might have the teachings, but the worldly conditions that arise will overwhelm you. Being in a monastery or a Dharma center is critical, unless you are much older when you ordain and have already gone through samsara and settled down.

Lama Zopa Rinpoche and Ven. Roger in Taos, NM, USA, 2002.

Ven. Roger and Lama Zopa Rinpoche, 2009.

Ven. Roger Kunsang and Lama Zopa Rinpoche, 2017. Photo by Andrea Husnik.

Ven. Chokyi: Given your half-century of longevity, do you have any specific advice for those who have been ordained a long time? Sometimes people disrobe even after 30 years or more.

Ven. Roger: Keeping your ordination requires having the underlying good karma for it to last, but it also requires managing your conditions: your teacher first, and then your environment. You need a supportive environment that isn’t attacking you all the time, but something you can rely on when difficult times arise.

By environment, I mean having other ordained people around you, or lay people who are sincerely putting the teachings into practice, alongside ongoing teachings from your masters. Those are the necessary conditions.

Even then, it remains hard for many of us, and some don’t survive. It’s not easy, especially in these times. Most non-Tibetan, non-Nepalese, or non-Indian monastics end up living back in the Western world. Because it is not a Buddhist country, you face constant external conditions and circumstances that are not at all helpful to holy life. There are no magic answers. Unless you’ve got a lot of good karma, it’s just hard.

Lama Zopa Rinpoche with IMI Sangha at Light of the Path Retreat, 2017. Photo by Kalleen Mortensen.

Ven. Chokyi: Well, Venerable Roger, for somebody who appears to have a bucketload of good karma, thank you so very much for sharing your wisdom and your experience with us.

Ven. Roger: Well, I want to mention that my life as a monk hasn’t been easy. It has been a struggle and very hard at times—seriously hard. But I never wanted to give up the ordination, despite plenty of challenges, issues, and lots of tests.

Ven. Chokyi: Thank you very much for your honesty and for sharing your experience. It is a monumental milestone to reach 50 years of ordination. May you continue to live a long and healthy life.

Ven. Roger: Okay, thank you. Bye. 

With grateful thanks to Ven. Thubten Chokyi for conducting this interview and to Ven. Roger for graciously sharing his story! 

Are you an early student of FPMT who was there at the beginning? Do you have a story to share about how you met Lama Yeshe or Lama Zopa Rinpoche or the impact they have had on your life? Have you personally achieved or actualized a request, advice, practice accomplishment, or project given to you by Lama Yeshe or Lama Zopa Rinpoche? We want to hear from you!

Please explore all of the resources we have compiled related to FPMT history. We look forward to all of your creative ideas on how to bring this year-long celebration to your own local activities and personal practices! Please use the hashtag #50YearsFPMT in your social media posts so we can all be connected in this way. 

Foundation for the Preservation of Mahayana Tradition (FPMT), is a Tibetan Buddhist organization dedicated to the transmission of the Mahayana Buddhist tradition and values worldwide through teaching, meditation and community service.